Understanding the Shift: Why the Human Experience Is Changing Faster Than Ever—and What Leaders Must

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Welcome to the Hitting the Ball You Cannot See podcast. And today it's such a privilege to have some incredible friends with me. And I'm going to have them introduce themselves briefly before we continue our conversation today. But the conversation today is on the second part of...

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of this conversation. So in the previous podcast, we discussed how the world is rapidly changing and how we're just not keeping up to the rate of change in the world around us and how we need to embrace anticipation and this ability to actually anticipate where things are going to be and place the mission above the method and anticipation above strategy as we figure out how to navigate this brave new world that we all get to live in.

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So today, what we're doing is we're switching gears and we're actually doing the first one of three segments that each is going to look at one of the ways in which the world is changing. So today's conversation is the changes in the way we live, right? This human experience is drastically changing. And we're going to discuss that a little bit later.

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both with regards to the definition of humanity and then our digital existence in this world. In the next podcast, we'll be exploring the way the world works and how that is changing. And then the one after that, we'll be digging into the way we connect. But for today,

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the way we live, right? The human experience is changing and how should we respond? And to have this discussion with me, I have Micah from Texas, Anja from Poland, and Lisa from Canada, where she is telling us that it is really cold today. And when a Canadian tells you it's cold, you need to be worried. So Lisa, why don't you kick off by introducing yourself quickly?

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Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on. My name is Lisa. I'm from Toronto, Canada. I work for Finishing the Task and my passions are the rising generations, collaboration and women leaders. And so it's great. It's awesome to be on this conversation.

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Well, it's great to have you, Lisa. And then Micah, how about you? Yes, I am a youth pastor here in Texas, as well as I get to serve on the Nest Move team, on the marketing and communication side of things. And so I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having us.

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Awesome. Well, it's great having you, Mike. It seems like we've lost Anya for a moment. So I'm going to have her introduce herself as soon as she is able to jump back on the call. You never know when it must be that it's cold day too. I don't know. I don't know what's delaying the signal a little bit.

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But today's conversation is a little bit of a conversation on how the human experience is changing. And I won't have you give away your age because everybody out there is convinced that you're young and brand new. But I want us just to take a moment and think about the last decade.

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So one decade ago, we're speaking December 2015, and I want you to think back of where you were in December 2015 and how the human experience is different today, your work life, your general entertainment and the way that you consume whatever media you consume, the way you live.

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How is the human experience different for you today than what it was a mere decade ago? So, Micah, why don't we kick off with you?

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I would say, I was just thinking when you said entertainment, me personally, in a decade ago, I would have to rush home to get to, to watch a certain TV show or whatever, like it's coming on at five o'clock. I got to be there. Now I don't have to do that anymore. I can go back, rewatch any show that I want to at any point, anytime in Australia.

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I don't even have to have necessarily cable for it. I can look it up on the internet and it's already there. And so I was thinking about that when you said that one about the entertainment piece to you. And I was also thinking when it comes to relationship and connecting with people who

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Back in the decade, you would have to like literally sometime like, hey, I only have this amount of minutes to use on my phone for me to call you. And like it has to be only two minutes. And now you can talk to people any kind of way. You can talk via text, via phone, everything. So technology is it's expanded so much. Yeah.

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Yeah, you're mentioning the minutes on your phone. I always remember that moment in the, I think it's the BlackBerry movie. I'm sure it has a different name. But the executive that makes the statement and he says, you can only sell the minute once, right? Whereas data, you can sell a lot of it and make a lot more money. But it's amazing that the world has changed as much as it has in a mere decade, right? How quickly things are changing. Lisa, what about you?

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I'm thinking back to 2015, and I think I've changed in response to how fast the media technology has changed. And I say this because I can tell just by what Micah shared that I'm older than Micah. And I remember the rotary phone, like legit, right? Yuri and I were on the same page on this. And I'm just kind of like,

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And I just found it so overwhelming. And I compare myself from 10 years ago. And I feel like I'm more disciplined in allowing what I access and how often I access. Because I'm just like, maybe I'm just old. Maybe I'm just too analog to continually process. Like, I feel so limited. But then just all information is not good information. And there is...

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For me, the content of the information where I think now everyone is much more aware of misinformation or disinformation. So what is truth? And I think that shapes our current identity. So I find myself that I've changed in how I approach the mediums out there because the medium in many ways has become the message. And I'm like, I can't keep up.

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And I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing. It's just the reality of who I am, right? I just, okay, we need to figure out how to pace ourselves in a way that is productive to the human experience. And for us as believers, to how we're going to live each day for God. Teach us a number of days so that we might gain wisdom, right? So that's how I found it. Man, I feel old when you say that 2015 was 10 years ago.

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But it's such a good point, right? This feeling that I can't keep up. Yeah. You know, and, you know, we'll touch more on it when we speak about the way the world works. But this whole concept of a decade ago, if you saw a video of something, you trusted it to be true.

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Right. So, I mean, if I had a dollar every time a person that has a greater equity in wisdom than me, that's the kind of way of saying older people. Every time an older person sends me a video of something which is clearly AI, it didn't happen. But they're so excited about what they're seeing because they grew up in a time when seeing was believing. If you saw the video, it's got to be true. If you saw that person on videos making that statement, then they had to have said it.

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It's not true. And that changes the way I live. It changes the way I experience things. It changes the way I think about things. Anya was able to make her way back through the Ethernet. So welcome back to you, Anya. But maybe just as, would you mind taking a moment just to introduce yourself to us, Anya?

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Yes. So hi, my name is Anja. I'm from Poland and I am one of the leaders of Stiger International, the mission organization reaching the young generation that is normally outside of the church and they are not really...

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They usually have a wrong view about God, about Jesus, and they are in the, let's say, far away places, dark places. And my heart is broken for them. Basically, I became...

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Twenty-three years ago, I was in these places, and I know what it means to be saved by Jesus, and that's why my heart is broken, and I want to go and preach the gospel and see the change in their lives. So that's my compassion and seeing young generation, young leaders, lift up with fire in their faith to go and preach the gospel and make those young people disciples of Jesus. Come on.

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Come on, I love the mission of Steiger and your heart for every generation, but specifically the emerging generation and them following Jesus, Anya. We're having this discussion about the human experience and how it's changing.

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And maybe, you know, shifting gears a little bit, if I could pick on you for a moment, is if you had to describe how the needs of people and the experience of life is changing in the lives of the people you're looking to reach, you know, in the last decade, in the last 20 years, as you've been doing this, what is different in just the way people live from the way people used to live?

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So I think the biggest challenge that I can see is that they really don't know who they are, their identity, and they are really lost. So I can't imagine most of them, they are just waking up and asking themselves, am I a girl? Am I a boy?

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So it's just like it's already for some time. But I think the biggest problem nowadays as we are going and talking to people is that they really feel lonely.

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They feel like they don't know anymore what is the truth. They don't feel like they get the truth from media or from their friends. They are checking, of course, everything. But at the same time, they don't know what to hold on. What is really the purpose of their life? Why they are here? And this made them basically...

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just lost, lost in the way. And also lonely in the way that they can be with people like somewhere online, they can have a lot of friends, but at the same time, they feel like they are not super connected. There is no in that. So they are searching for these communities and that's why it's a good way for us as a church to respond to it and to be for them and listen to them.

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So there's this deep sense of insecurity right down to sexual identity and truth mixed in with this extreme loneliness in the midst of hyper-connectedness. I mean, that's a recipe for disaster right there, right?

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If people feel all alone and highly unsure about who they are, that's a pretty dark place to be. I think we were talking a minute ago, Anya, about what's different now than a decade ago. I don't think I saw young people as lonely by definition a decade ago.

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And the amount of young adults that I'm speaking to these days, that's in their early 20s. Now, my reference of people being in their late teens and early 20s is they're hanging out in big groups and social lives and social interaction is 90% of their existence. It feels to me like every person in that age bracket that I speak to is longing for community, is longing for true connection, is longing for authentic relationship. And it seems like this hyper-connectedness

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and probably married to this lack of identity is just causing a individualization and a separation that is tearing society apart. It's a very bright and shiny, clearly podcast we're having this morning, but you know, it's a heavy fact. It's a reality. Lisa, what about your work in Asia and around the world and in North America? What do you see?

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I feel you, Anya, in terms of just a young generation that feels so confused and lost. And part of me...

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It feels like the digital age that we're in and all the communication, it's almost like overstimulation. It's like so much of everything all the time that it kind of unsettles your soul from actually having the time to sit. Like I love the Psalm 46 said, be still and know that I am God.

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But with everything that's going on, every human being only has 24 hours a day and you're doing everything all the time. And doomsday scrolling is a real thing. It captivates your mind. And I feel like that's where the enemy has gotten or is threatened to get an upper hand on our young generation. Just so much busyness and so much overstimulation that they forget that they were made to be in relationship with God and with each other. And so the loneliness kicks in because you're always trying to,

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fill your relational health with these empty calories and you're actually not getting healthier it's just you feel full in the moment but again these empty calories that don't actually contribute to your soul health i mean i think that um

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It just reminds me of when 1 Peter 5, verse 8, it's like, be sober-minded and vigilant. I don't know that we've taught our kids to think and meditate on the Word of God. It's just consumption and consumption, but just letting it sink down to the deepest crevices of your soul, which, Anya, I think you perhaps have discovered this in your ministry. People just want to be truly connected.

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And not just overstimulate it. And when you get to that core part of the human being, then I think that's where real relationship can happen. And that's the tension between what we see as a fast-paced world and things are always developing. And then the Ecclesiastes message where there's nothing new under the sun. We are made in the image of God. You don't take that. You're not going to find purpose.

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But that's good, Lisa, because what you're touching on is this concept of people are consumers, right? But the problem is we can fall into the trap of just giving them another thing to consume, right? Just another piece of media, just creating something more, just creating more noise without that meditation, without that pause.

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How do we turn that around? Because I feel like if I look at the Christian world, a lot of it is just more of that, right? It's just more entertainment. It's just more products. It's just more and more. And we don't pause and reflect. We don't assimilate. We don't take it in. And that generation that Anya beautifully shared her heart for doesn't feel like they're making a true connection with God if we don't create that space where they can pause and connect.

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Yes, and I think for this, this is the most beautiful story that always like just is touching me and changing always my perspective who God is. Because, you know, like I am from the background that I believed in God. I knew he exists, but I had an image and most of the young generation, you know, like 20 years ago that my friends had.

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We saw God as this elderly man on the clouds with his finger and just saying, Hey, don't do it. When you do it, you will go to hell and you will be punished and you won't be a child of God anymore.

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And what I can see now, there is no even a concept of God, who He is and who Jesus is. And so for me, the most beautiful story that I always share with people, like, you know, with the younger generation is just the image of Father God from Prodigal Son. Because this is something that this story is just...

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So beautiful to not only explain, hey, you can call to God that will accept you. He loves you as you are because he created you. You will be always welcome in his arms, in his kingdom, at the table. And this is something that people don't accept.

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they don't experience this anymore. Like I, you know, whatever I had family and experiences, I could be at the table with my family and talk every Sunday. Now people go get fast food or just do everything fast and activities. Let's go holidays here and there. And, you know, like there is like a move, like it's run.

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run of rats almost like you just like you feel like you can't even sit at the table and enjoy and just talk and have conversation listen and that's who God is he's like I welcome you come to me as you are I love you

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and I have everything what you need, and I know everything about you, so let's be together. And I think this is the image of God that needs to be shown to people, because this is something that they never experience. They always feel like, you know, God is this...

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person or whoever is for them that will punish them, doesn't love them, doesn't like them. So that's the image that I feel like they need to receive nowadays. So how do we break through the noise? As a leader listening to this conversation, I can so relate. It's not just the lives that I see people living. To some extent, it's the life I live.

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So the pause and reflect the moments where we experience God and we don't just hear about God, right? So in the book, there's this portion about the different ages of technology and how there was an age where information had scarcity and therefore value. And then there was an age where application had scarcity and therefore value. So everybody created an app for it. And now we're in an age of technology.

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of experience, right? Where people are asking, but I want to experience God. And that's exactly what you're touching on, Anja, as Steiger and others are creating experiences. The churches that are growing are the churches that's creating an experience of God. You know, some of the stories of revival we're hearing out of Europe and specifically the UK at the moment is young people coming to traditional churches.

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because they don't want to hear the message. They want to experience something. They want to experience communion. They think there's an experience at this traditional church that they've never experienced because they're numb to another message, right? And I think we're in this amazing space where there's actually an opportunity for the gospel to

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Because people are, you know, they've tasted and they've seen that it is no good. And they're looking for something else. They're looking for something spiritual. They're looking for something real. I just hope that we're able to break through the noise and capture the opportunity in our generation.

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Yes, I just said something. So maybe somebody else can say it. I was just thinking when you were talking about the experience. And for me, like every single thing is an experience. Like when I go to a restaurant, I want to have an experience. When I go shopping, I want to have an experience. And I think this generation, every single time that they're longing for something, they want it to be an experience. So if you think about it.

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They're looking for the traditional, okay, I want to have an experience of communion. I've never experienced communion in a traditional setting. I've never experienced baptism in a traditional setting. And I think sometimes we have to get back to the basics in order to reach the generation that we're wanting to reach because –

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A lot of them, they've been taught fast paced, like Anya said, the fast food restaurant. But now they're ready to essentially slow down and have an experience. And when they come into church, when they come in to certain whatever it is, they want to have an experience. They don't just want to fast. And I think just kind of getting back to the basics a little bit and even how we reach them versus reaching them.

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The digital technology reached him by going out there and connecting with him. That creates an experience of like, hey, they went out there and they showed up for me.

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But it's a good point you make, Mark. It's getting back to the basics. It's not adding to the fluff. And I think sometimes we're tempted to speak about all the things that everybody's speaking about when actually the basics of Christianity is so powerful. The church's mission is not to provide certainty on all the issues.

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but to create clarity on what matters most. And if we can do that, I think we're presenting people with a clarion call or a clear sound that is so attractive because it's not more noise. It's the thing we're looking to hear. It's the thing we're looking to experience.

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I think what's fascinating on this call is that you've got a Steiger International represented by Anya here who goes out of the church walls, like where the church doesn't traditionally go to marginalized young people who probably wouldn't step into church because of whatever background they come from. And then you've got Micah, who's a youth pastor.

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And in both cases, for me, going back to the basics, it's like, who do you think God is? Right? Because in Anya's case, the kids who are on the streets and the young people who are on the fringes of society, so to speak, you might be the only Christ that they ever get to meet. Like you are the walking, living world. Yeah.

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Christ ambassadors. And then when you bring them to church, who do you believe that Christ is? Right. So the woman at the well, you know, what that Jesus speaks to, she goes out because she has met the living God and she says, he is the Messiah. This is who people were talking about. And the other flip side to that is if we're going to take this seriously, it's the mentorship and discipleship.

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And that's the real experience. And that reminds me of John 15. I am the vine, you are the branches. You must abide in me. And then learn what to cut out and what to prune out of your own life. So I see both our leaders on this call, Anya and Micah, that collaboration of bringing it.

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out and then when they're in the community, you've got to give them the real thing. It is the word of God. It is powerful. Kids aren't just interested in entertainment. They're made in the image of God. They can go out and go to any rave or any concert but when you speak the powerful word of God the way that Jesus did when he went out and the way that when we're all in it, that changes, that transforms and they, as you were saying, Yuri, they will taste and see what's good and they'll learn that they're

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They're not made in the image of a curated, filtered social media image. They're made in the image of God. Stop looking to this world for your cues, for your identity and why you exist. And I'm wondering if there's an existential attack from the enemy on the new generations, you know? Yeah.

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Yeah, and I think that it goes back to what Anya said at the beginning about identity, right? As I'm journeying through John 1, and I'm reading the statements about them coming to John the Baptist and saying, hey, you know, are you the Messiah?

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And then four times John the Baptist says, I am not, I am not, I am not, right? They go, are you the Messiah? Well, are you Elijah? Are you, are you? And he keeps on saying, I'm not. And then he makes this profound statement, which, you know, it's still blowing my mind. I'm not sure that I'm ready to speak on it yet. But he says, the one that is coming after me is before me and he will be after me.

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Right. So what John the Baptist does is rather than finding his identity in the present, he finds his identity in the ancient and in the coming of the glory of the Lord. And I think we're in such an instant society that's all about the here and the now and the moment that that identity crisis, you know, to your point, Lisa, isn't answered in the moment.

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The right now, right here, here's the latest fad. No, it's answered in the ancients, in the Bible. You know, the U.S. just sold more Bibles than what it's done in a decade, and the number one demographic is young men, right? Why is that? Because they're looking for something solid in a world where nothing's solid, in a world where everything's just fluff and out there.

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I want to switch gears here. Anja, I see you wanted to add something and then I'll take us into the next question. Yeah, I just feel like young people, they want us, Christians, to be real, to be honest and to show them really, you know, because sometimes I feel like we as Christians, we are trying to be perfect.

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and we are forgetting about how people need to really get to know us and get to know Jesus. It's just like when you look at Jesus' life and what He was doing, He was just with them. And the first Christianity, the first church was just with people answering their needs.

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And even sometimes it was like they were going to the society, they were answering for the needs of people, like, you know, like the children dying just on the streets or when there was a sickness, everybody was leaving, even the members of the family. It was like from COVID, just like isolation. I can't touch you. I can get sick.

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But Christians, first Christians, they were showing the Gospel by looking after and being with them and then inviting them to the table and spending time and talking. And that's what young people need. They need, like Lisa, you were saying about mentors, disciples, but walking, not doing this as a program or anything that you just like, okay, when you go through the program, I don't know, you come 10 times and you will be this and this. But, yeah.

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They really need to walk and just see and see in us that we are real in our relationship with Jesus, that we are taking seriously, that when we go and spend time with God, He changes us. And I think the most important is that when I think about my identity, it's like, you know, from James, it's just like you read the Bible, you know God is just God.

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showing you, you are praying and you are just looking at the mirror and you know who you are. And this is not only possible because you spend time and God is showing you this. It's just not possible that you can talk to them, tell them and just teach them about that. They need to experience, hear from our Heavenly Father.

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It's holding up another mirror, right? Because the reality is the mirror most people are looking at is this one right here, right? That's the mirror they're spending their hours on, you know, looking at that mirror, which isn't their identity. It's everybody else struggling with theirs, right? So it's an infinity mirror that has no answers, but it just keeps on asking difficult questions. Yeah.

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I mean, how do we take technology and how do we respond to technology in a better way? If we could just get super practical right now, the hitting the ball, you cannot see book in chapter four, it goes into this neutrality of technology.

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digital, the digital world, right? And it tells the story of the Mburu people, which is this tribe in Amazon that they gave Starlink satellite dishes to and how these satellite dishes, you know, messed up society, though it had all this good potential, it ended up messing up society. And then the Mburu tribe would eventually take control of the technology because they realized the power thereof

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But it was used for bad initially, right? When just left unchecked. And it's just such a great metaphor of what we're facing in life, right? Is we're in this space where we've got all this technology, we've got all these access, everybody's got this mirror. How do we use it for the good? How do we turn technology to a tool for good rather than something that's making society struggle? So, yeah.

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What are some ideas with regards to that? Marco, why don't you jump in for us? I was thinking just...

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I'm 30. I'm just going to say it. I'm 30. So my parents, their generation, especially my- What do we need to do about that? Lisa, why is this so funny? Sorry, I'm trying to get to my point. So their technology is so bad. You shouldn't have your phone, this, this, this, this, right? And then I was thinking, and even my kids now, my students, even some of their parents are like, technology is so bad, blah, blah. And I'm like,

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technology, it has a lot of positive effects to it. So I tell my kids, I was like, hey, you don't have to go buy a Bible. It's in your phone. Like you can use that. You don't have to go buy a journal pad or everything. It's all in your phone. Use your technology to build your relationship with God. You don't have to go buy a CD player anymore. You can go on YouTube, listen to worship music. And so a single time and even like before I preach, I tell them all the time, hey, you

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Pull out your phone. You have your phone here. Pull it out. Take notes. Look at the Bible app. It's all there. So it could be a resource. I think we just have to take the negative aspect of it and turn it into something positive. And just it can be dangerous for sure. I mean, there's every single thing dangerous, but there's also a lot of positive to it when it comes to, you know, just developing your relationship with God. You can find books on with your phone, every single thing. Yeah.

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That's how I use it. And that's how I encourage my students. Like, hey, don't go buy it. I mean, I have a physical Bible. I think having a physical Bible is great. But if you can't afford one, if your parents, you know, if you're leading your family to Christianity, which a lot of kids like, hey, you don't have to go buy a Bible. What you can do is it's on your phone. Download the Bible app. You have it right there. Yeah.

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But what's good about what you're saying, Micah, is you're not villainizing something, right? So sometimes when something is dangerous, we want to villainize it. And that can alienate the individuals we're trying to reach, right? So rather showing them how to use what they love and use all the time for good points them in the right direction. That's great.

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Micah, I love that you're 30 because my gosh, now I feel really old. I'm like a decade and a half. I love your observation there. And I think for me, the flip of the switch is we have created something. Something has emerged in the history of humanity. Either we're going to master it or it's going to master us.

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And just because he was created out of the ingenuity of humankind doesn't mean that it can't master us because we give our loyalty to it. And it reminds me of the passages in the Old Testament. You'll find some in Psalm. And also the passage that comes to mind is Isaiah 44, where he's like, you create these idols.

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They are made by your hands, and then you give your worship to them. Like, it was created by you. And these idols, half of the wood you'll use to create an idol, half of the wood you'll use to burn stuff. And then you bow down to it, like the foolishness of it all. And the Psalms will say, like, these are idols of silver and gold that cannot see, speak, or hear. And then, therefore, you will become like it.

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And we are made in the image of God. And that's where I think AI, as much as brilliant as it can be in aggregating data, that is made in the image of information of humankind. It is not made in the image of God. We are made in the image of God. You either master this tool and you understand the limits of it, or you will become slave to it. And I feel like there's a battle going on to that. So I echo everything that Micah said and just what he shared and what you shared just sparked that thought in me. So...

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Preach, Lisa. That was awesome, man. So good. Anya? Yeah, I think looking at, you know, especially Gen Z, it's, they still are, depends which age, of course, but looking even on my son that he's 15, they have communities, they have groups of friends, like they talk all the time on different, you know, chats and,

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And this is what we do as a church as well. We have different chats and groups, and we are on Instagram, we are everywhere, like TikTok. But what is really, I think, important that we can use this tool for God's glory, but for me, the most important is...

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what do we express, what do we show on our social media, like about us, but also about our community. And young people are searching for that. Of course, they want to. It's so much about the image, you know, what you do, who you are, and, you know, like what you present. But at the same time, they always look,

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with who you are connected and what is the kind of relationship that you can have with those people. And I think for me it's a really great tool. It's something that of course I needed to learn how to use it in the way that, you know, because like my son Daniel,

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He doesn't... Like, we are talking about this, but for him, it's normal. This is reality. It's nothing like virtual and, you know, and live. It's just like everything is together. This is not something we'll separate. And that's why I just really...

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I know we need to be aware that we can use it for the glory of God, but also we should be real there, like what I was saying before, and just inviting them to our life and always share, of course, not only what we do and how we look like and stuff, but also thinking, how can we make it more accessible to people to connect with us,

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are the dialogue so people can actually feel free to connect with us and be and wanting be to be part of the christian community so um so yeah i think i think we talk a lot about this but at the same time i feel like we should use it more uh so we can be there present for them

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And it's a little forgiving that the trend at the moment is towards authenticity, right? So you don't have to be perfectly polished in your use of it. You just need to be present, right? It's incarnating Christ in that space, right? It's making the incarnation real there. Kevin Lee makes a statement that's quoted in the book. He says, today's generation isn't just digitally native.

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They're social media natives living in a multiverse of personas. And I really think it's important that we help bring that clarity that Lisa is speaking about. We're present there to incarnate Christ, to incarnate the Word, to bring the authentic truth of identity in Christ and that we're more than all of this. And we're not afraid, you know, in this battle that Lisa is describing, we need to run to the fire.

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You know, I think too many leaders are hiding from the fight, you know, waiting for this to be over. I spoke to a guy the other day and he said he's so glad that he's almost retiring because he's just given up. He's given up on keeping up. And I was like, man, don't give up on keeping up. Jump in there. You've got something to teach. You are a pure, you have purity of truth. Right.

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that we're longing for, right? And so there's something to be said for that. We're running out of time here, so I'm going to give you guys an opportunity to make a closing statement or comment. And what I want to ask you to lean into a little bit is just practically speaking, as this podcast goes out to leaders all around, if you could leave them with one message, with one instruction, with one next step

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to reach a humanity that's finding itself in a place where the human experience is hugely disrupted by technology, by the identity crisis that comes along with the human experience in this rush as we've been describing, the race of the rat. But as you're thinking about all of that,

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What is that one thing that you could say, leaders, go out, listen to this podcast, take this thing and go and change this thing, go and do this thing, go and apply the skill as you go forth from here. I'll let you guys start with it, whoever's ready.

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I can start us off. And Micah, I'm sorry for going first. I think for me, it does go back to the fortification of your own spiritual life so that when you speak out of it, it is real and authentic. And for me, in this season of my life, Psalm 61 to lead me to the rock that is higher than I.

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Like, come on, seriously, take your spiritual life seriously. So and taking it seriously is super fun. God is not a cosmic killjoy. And anybody who has dwelled in the presence of God knows that there is a lot of joy. And so that would be my one thing. Leaders.

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take your own spiritual life seriously and pray often for your own fortitude so that as you go out, you will be given the words to say and you will be given the opportunity so you can be in step with the Spirit. But if your inner life is all over the place, you are not going to make a difference. So good, Lisa. Micah? That's good. Yeah. I think personally just...

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Constantly being aware and knowing what's happening out there and knowing that you can't keep up with it all. But also just know that you are bringing something to the table. The things that you've walked through, your wisdom, every single thing, you're bringing that to the table. So don't be afraid to share and don't ever feel like just because you can't keep up.

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with the technology, with the new thing, with this, with that, that you're not equipped, that you're not qualified enough. God can use every single thing. And I think we all have testimonies. We all have stories to share. And a lot of those things that we've gone through in our life, that we've experienced, the next generation, they need to hear every single thing. So to your point, Yuri, of the guy that wanted to retire because he's like, he can't keep up. No, sir. There are things that you have gone through that you-

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bring wisdom to someone and a younger than you. And I think just because your age, like literally does not mean to give up. So just keep going. Did Micah just call us old Lisa? I did not. That's kind of what I took from that. I'm kidding. I'm just. I heard it. It's recorded Micah. It's on there.

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But he said we're old, but somebody still needs us. So that's what I'm going to take. I'm going to hold on to that. Anya?

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I think I would like to connect these two answers. And for me, the most important is that what is the most important for me is to really find time every day, each moment to spend as much as you can have time with God at the table and just really...

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find your identity as daughter or son. And I know that at this table, you are going to experience his broken heart for the lost. And I know that during this time, he's going to show you so many beautiful things about you, about what he created for you. You will find out his will for your life, but also will show you people around and how much he loves them and how his heart is...

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searching and just crying out for those lost prodigal sons and daughters that he's waiting for. And it's a privilege for us to be sent by God and just find them and bring them to the table and experience his presence. So I think this is like my precious...

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thought that God gave me two years ago, very strong. And this really gives me like, you know, excitement of, of being for this young generation and just helping them, listening to them and, and being each time authentic for them.

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So good. So good. And I think it touches on the one thing that kind of bubbles to the surface for me as we're having the conversation today. And that's kind of the conclusion of the chapter in the book as well on digitization. But it's genuine experiences.

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And real relationships with human beings is the new scarce resource in our society. So many things have become abundant and sped up and is just all over. But real human connection and experiencing God is a scarce resource. And most of the leaders listening to this podcast have...

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has that scarce resource, has that ability to facilitate and to offer that. So let's continue to find ways to do that. And in the words of the great Lisa Pack, let's get in the fight. Thank you guys for being a part of this. It's been great having you on here. Next time in the podcast, we're going to focus on how these changes in the human experience

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is changing the way organizations work and society comes together. So we'll be looking at organizations as well as the shifting understanding of trust when we come together next time. So thank you for joining us. Look forward to continue the conversation with you. Thank you.