Hitting the Bullseye: Innovation, Collaboration, and Faith for the Future

0:01 Welcome to the Hitting the Ball You Cannot See podcast. And during this podcast, I have this incredible privilege of chatting with some amazing people from around the world and having some great conversations about the future of the faith and how we can accelerate Jesus' following into the future. Now, today I have the great privilege of having a conversation with Kristen, which is one of my favorite people ever. And she is just an incredible woman. mom and leader and just a great visionary of our generation. And I'm so excited to have a bit of a chat with you, Kristen. But I'm going to ask you just to introduce yourself and brag on yourself a little bit.

0:42 And if you don't do a good job, I'm going to expand even further. So go for it. That sounds good. Thanks. That was a threat, if you were one. Very good. Well, I'm very honored to be here. Very excited about what we get to talk about today. As you said, I am a mom. That's one of the things I'm most excited about. I have three little girls, and it's just a joy that my husband, Micah, and I have to raise those little precious lives. I also have the privilege of serving as the president of EastWest. I have been there almost 16 years and really just love what I get to do and helping to steward what God's doing among the nations and seeing the church planted where it's not yet.

1:23 So it's certainly a joy to be a part of Great Commission work day in and day out. Well, East-West Ministries is, in my opinion, global best practice when it comes to mission sending and mission empowerment around the world. But not only that, Kristen, your global best practice as far as women in leadership is concerned. So it really is a privilege for us to have you here. And I'm excited about this conversation today. We're at episode five of this podcast, and we started out by just kind of introducing the whole concept of... the future, the world moving quickly, how the world's changing, and how we're struggling to adapt to it. Then we looked at the three categories of how the world is changing, right?

2:06 So firstly, we spoke some through the fact that the human experience is changing. Then we spoke about the way the world works, how the way the world works is changing. And then lastly, we spent a little bit of time just on the whole concept of how relationships are changing. And then today, we get to follow up all of that. conversation just by looking to the future a little bit. So we're going to break up our conversation into two parts. The first part, we're going to spend a little bit of time on innovation. How are we keeping up? How are we bringing in new ideas into our space? What new things are we seeing? And then the second part will transition and we'll actually have a bit of a conversation just about signs of hope and what makes us hopeful for the future and where do we see God moving in this next season?

2:51 So, Kristen, maybe just kind of falling in there with the idea, within East-West, within the missions world, what are some of the things that you feel these things are key for us to keep innovating, to stay relevant within the context that we're ministering? Yeah, that's such a great question. You know, so much of it is mission-driven. And so as we think about gospel-centered work and the core of that mission being the advancement of the gospel, I think so often we come in with a mindset, especially as Westerners, that we have an idea of what needs to be done and how to go about this work. And so often what we're finding as we go into, especially places where the church has not yet been established or it's just beginning to establish, we're realizing that the passion and the calling and the zeal of the local church for reaching its own people is something very unique that an outsider simply doesn't possess.

3:53 So it's not to say we don't come in with our own passion, but rather, how can we lean into the vision and the passion and the call of the local body of Christ and what the Lord has implanted within them and help— fan that into a much bigger fire than we can bring in with our own passion and our own zeal. And so oftentimes there's new ideas or new ways to go about reaching a people group or seeing the church grow or coming up against barriers that an insider has unique perspective on that's different from perhaps what we might bring in. And so it's not to say we have no value to add, but rather, how do we come in with this posture of learning and listening and seeking to understand the position and the ideas of the local church, as so often they have something valuable to add to the conversation, as opposed to just being recipients of what we're bringing to the table.

4:54 That's great, Kristen. And I think it's a little bit of a recurring theme in these conversations is this whole idea of putting the mission above the method, right? And I love hearing you articulate how in your effort, in your desire to fulfill the mission, you've had to adapt the mission. You've had to adapt the method from being kind of this is our way centric or we have the way centric to being no, no. So let's learn from the people on the ground what is the way, right? And that's usually relevant, right? Because it's relevant in missions, but it's also relevant in the church in trying to reach a new generation, right? It's rather than holding on to your methodologies of the past, how can you reach the next generation by finding out from them and learning from them and seeing what God is doing within that context?

5:43 I'm going to ask you a little bit of a difficult question because I was sitting yesterday with a guy. His organization is in the process of going, they were US-centric and then in the process of going global. So, he was asking me some questions on how can they do that well. And I think EastWest is doing that well in an incredible way. But you've been with East West 16 years. How have you seen this change over the last 16 years, you know, without throwing anybody under the bus and getting yourself in trouble? But, you know, what are some of the changes that you're seeing with regards to, well, we used to do it this way? Because I'm sure you didn't discover this just from victory to victory. I think you discovered this through failure, if I guess.

6:26 I have no insights into it. Yeah. What's been the changes? What's been the catalysts to those changes? Have you seen a change? Yeah, great questions. Certainly lots of change. We often will use the phrase failing forward. So you're exactly right. There's been a lot of, we've not done things quite right, or we didn't do it in the way that could have produced the best result. But let's learn from that and use that failure to help move us forward. So lots of learning along the way. You know, I think so much of it has been centered around asking and answering the question, how do we best steward the vision and the mission that the Lord has given to us?

7:09 And when we're willing to ask that question on a regular basis, it does change methodologies. It brings about new ways of thinking about things. So I'll give an example. We've recognized that really a core value for us is discipleship. And so while evangelism is a key strategy that we utilize in every field where we get to do ministry, one of a turning point for us, this was many years ago, we were doing a lot of broad sowing evangelism, which is wonderful. There's nothing wrong with it. It's a great strategy. Yeah. But with a value on discipleship, we recognized we were investing a lot of resources in broad sowing that wasn't yielding great fruit in terms of discipleship.

7:57 And so we said, how might we restructure where we're investing in such a way that it's actually going to cost more to do evangelism, but if we're doing it... in more of a one-on-one or smaller group setting that produces those opportunities for ongoing discipleship, that's going to get us closer to the center of the bullseye that we're after with our efforts. And so we set aside some really significant partnerships that we had developed over years to Not because, again, they weren't doing great work, but rather to say, we're going to bless and release you to go and continue with broad-flowing evangelism. We're going to shift our methodology and really focus our time and attention and resources on some of those smaller scale evangelism opportunities.

8:44 But again, that... allow us to move into those discipleship relationships more naturally, more quickly, and more abundantly. And we saw our discipleship efforts increase significantly just because of that one tweak of how we were doing the front end of that relationship related to sharing the gospel. That's so good, Kristen, because I think what I'm hearing you articulate is a lot of the cost of innovation. So you're acknowledging this isn't working, and then you're saying this might be a better way, but then there's that cost. There's the direct cost of saying no to someone or something, and then there's the indirect cost of the risk of the new thing might not work as well as the old.

9:27 So you could pay the price and then lose all your money. This is really, really hard, which I'm sure you face all the time, right? So it's easy to look back and to say, well, that was successful. We did it. We changed our ways. We're more effective than ever. But I think a lot of people are on the front end of paying that price. Yeah. So they're in the space where they're saying, this thing I'm trying in my church or this thing I'm trying in my organization or this thing I'm trying in my business, it isn't working. I can see that it isn't working. I have some ideas of what could be a better way, but I risk losing Make the List. if I were to go that way, right? And innovation never comes cheap.

10:09 There's no such thing as cheap innovation. There's always a cost involved in innovating, always a cost involved in trying something new. What would you say to somebody that's at that point where they're looking at things need to change? I want to try this, but I'm not sure I'm willing to pay the price. Yeah. Any advice? Yeah, great question. So much of it is... Asking the Lord for that vision for the preferred future. Okay, if I lean into this and if I do what it's going to take and really prune some of these, be it relationships or opportunities or good things that the Lord has allowed to take place in the past.

10:51 But if I'm setting those things aside in order to chase after something that could result in a greater yield, a greater harvest, a greater outcome, then asking the Lord for the vision to be centered on that. Because there will come hard days. There will come broken relationships. There will come misunderstanding, confusion. And so knowing at the end of the day that these decisions that we've made to make, remove these other things out of the way is worth it because of what could be. And to the point, we don't know exactly what the outcome will be. But if we've done our homework and we've put in the time to...

11:34 to discern what that next strategy is and what that fruit could be, then believing the Lord for what He might allow for, that it could be even greater than what we're experiencing today, is a big thrust for how we can continue to be focused on what we need to do in order to get to that preferred future, that preferred outcome. Mm-hmm. I love that because there's three components here. There's that preferred future. So we've got to prefer it, right? So sometimes we don't prefer it, we just hope for it. So I love that. I love committing to the preferred future. But then I'm also hearing you speak about obedience, right? And that at the end of the day, success is obedience.

12:17 We don't have to come up with all the bright ideas. At the end of the day, we get to say, God, this is yours. My venture belongs to you. And at the end of the day, I want to please you. And what is the direction you want to take? But then you don't throw your brain out either. I'm hearing you say, then you've got to count the cost. You've got to consider it. You've got to manage it. So you've got to manage the cost. You've got to count the cost. You've got to, you know, maybe ring fence something and say, we're going to, We're going to try a pilot here rather than upsetting the whole organization. And then you kind of go with this hopefulness and this belief of it could be better. So the four things there, you should really write a book about this. This is pretty impressive.

12:59 Kristen, one of the things you're exceptionally good at, and I might get in trouble for saying this, but I'll blame Jen Brown, one of the contributors to the book that makes the comments about women and collaboration. She actually does a doctorate doctorate dissertation is on how women are better collaborators than men, which I believe with all my heart, right? Your brains are more connected than ours. Your ability to hold complex things and relational tension is better. But when it comes to innovation in your role as president of a significant organization, you're facing the tensions, right? So, they might be something that's better on the ground.

13:40 but it's harder to communicate to a donor or something that's better for the team, but it's less effective on the ground, right? So you've always got these different tensions between the different layers or components or stakeholders in your decision-making and innovation. How do you keep them together? How do you overcome the slowness of change and innovation that comes with being a large team or a large organization? Yeah, that's such a great question. Yeah. Oftentimes I wish things could move quite a bit faster than they actually do. Because I've got this vision. I know what we're after and I'm ready to go.

14:20 So often it really just comes back to, do I want to get there alone or do I want to get there with a team that's rallied around this same vision? And so we have to ask the question, what does it take to bring the team along? And in some cases, it's as simple as let me be as clear as possible in the vision that I'm casting and as compelling as possible as I invite them in. And all of that really hinges on if this is a move of the spirit, he's going to move in the hearts of the team to help bring them along. Yeah. in a much more effective way than my articulate words ever could or my compelling tone ever could.

15:04 But if I'm seeking that source of the Spirit to draw upon as I'm seeking to cast vision and bring a team along, then there's a lot of synergy that can happen as the Spirit's at work, not only in me, but then in the team and the way in which I've prayed for that team to come along. And so I think it's really just a matter of how do we make sure that we're leaning into the Spirit, staying in step with the Spirit, so that as we move and as we invite the team to come with us, there's already work that's taking place in the heavenly realms that's a much more important work than I could ever do here in my own world and in my own way of trying to accomplish things.

15:46 I love that, Kristen, because I'm hearing you kind of reflect on the theme of clarity in the midst of uncertainty, right? So we've got to communicate clearly, though we don't know exactly how it's going to work out and that clarity. But I think sometimes in our efforts to lead with clarity, we lose the humility of holding it lightly. So that principle of just, if this is God, He'll work in their hearts. So as a leader, you're continuously, the number one role of a leader is to define reality. You're continuously defining reality, defining preferred future, defining where you're hoping this would go. But at the same time, you're trying to hold this lightly and understanding that God's speaking through the people involved.

16:29 So it's kind of that both and. It's a beautiful dance. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So, Kristen, shifting gears here a little bit from just innovation and how we kind of implement this. And, you know, the chapter in the book kind of deals with these different principles of innovation and how to stop and how to start and what to do. But at the end of the day, no innovation happens without the motivation, without that picture of a preferred future, without that belief that God's got a better way. We'll never pay the price if there isn't something drawing us into the mall. Where do you see God moving us into?

17:09 What are some of the things that's exciting for you in the season that you're going, man, look at what the Lord's doing. Look at how the Lord's moving in our day and time. Yeah, such a great question. You know, I think, so I've been in the mission space for a couple of decades, so not as long as some, but at least long enough to see some trends. And I think one of the things that I'm seeing right now that has been just so refreshing and exciting is... is this spirit of collaboration among leaders coming to the table really with this John 17 mindset, with open hands, open hearts, and being willing to say, I have a great way, but I'm more interested in understanding what might be the best way.

18:00 as we seek to discern that together. Uh, and so it, it requires such humility to come to the table and ask such questions because our culture tells us we should have all of those answers. Um, and if I'm being honest in pride, it's easy to come and say, I do have all of those answers. I want people to think that I know what I'm talking about. Uh, But to come and say, hey, you might know something that I don't. Will you teach me? Will you help me understand your way so that I can then discern in the spirit how might there be an even better way to accomplish what we're after together? And so just that spirit of humility has been one thing that has just been so standout to me.

18:45 But I think what's also been interesting is to see that spirit of humility paired with this value of generosity. And so organizations are saying, yes, we want to be in. We want to listen. We want to learn. But we're also willing to bring things to the table to back. those words, whether it be, let's put our people on something that perhaps in the past makes sense to contribute our time to, or let's invest financial resources into something much bigger than our own organization, but we see the kingdom value. And so this value of generosity, being paired with this humility of wanting to collaborate with one another, yeah.

19:28 I think has just created this beautiful environment for the Lord to work in new and fresh ways. And that's incredibly exciting to observe. Hmm. That's so good. I love that. It feels like there's a generation emerging that's not willing to accept that it's lonely at the top because they're taking one another along in the process, right? Even if it's at a cost, they're willing to pay the price. Whether that's the perceived image loss of saying, I don't know, or it's the loss of speed and momentum because I'm waiting for someone else to come along.

20:10 I feel like there's a sustainability in that, right? The fact that we're coming together and truly saying, let's do this together in a significant way. And it has shifted. And it almost feels like people are starting to believe that we're better together. And how the technological isolation that we're experiencing, right, this whole world that's more connected than ever and yet more separated than ever, right? So we've got more human connections and more ways of connecting and more points of connection than ever in history, but we're lonelier than ever in history. It almost feels like that pendulum, having swung to that side, has caused a counteraction in society.

20:51 society and a generation to say, now we will not do this alone. We want to do this together. We're better at doing this together. going into the future. There's this desire for community. It's almost to your point with the pendulum swing. We've recognized it's not worth trying to do it alone. It's too hard that way. It's too lonely. And so what does it look like if we do this together? And that does require a sense of humility that only the Lord can produce and bring about in us. And so may He continue to stir that vision for coming to the table with humility. That's awesome.

21:31 And I think it's also, again, it's having the humility to come to the table and then having the humility to stay at the table. But it's, again, this invitation into, this stepping into what God has for us. And may that vision of the future truly be what we need. continue to step into together, Kristen. One of the things I've heard you reflect on and share on several times, which has really struck me, is this spirit of generosity that I think you embody and I think you recognize in people. But I'm sure a lot of the people listening to our podcast is finding themselves in some way or shape looking for that generosity, whether it is needing help with a particular project or whether it is raising finances to run their organization.

22:22 What do you see emerging in the generosity space in this season? So if you're looking forward to generosity of the future, how would it be different than the generosity of the past? Yeah. You know, I think there's always been this tension between the abundance mentality and the scarcity mentality. And I think if I'm just being totally honest, it's very easy to walk in the scarcity mentality, right? We don't have enough. Are we going to have enough? How do I raise more money? Sure. How do I increase what we're raising so that we can go and have even greater impact?

23:03 And so you operate out of this sense of fear that... What if the Lord doesn't provide what I think is needed in order to accomplish what I think He's called us to? And so I think to the extent that we can flip the narrative and really challenge ourselves to live in the abundance mentality and say, not only is there enough to accomplish what the Lord intends, but there's enough to give away to others what the Lord intends to accomplish in other organizations. Right. And so the more we can challenge ourselves with what's a new and different way by which we can operate in this abundance mentality, I think that just builds our faith to lean in even more to this concept that the Lord does provide.

23:53 And He will provide exactly what's needed. It may not be what we thought was needed. It may be an excess of what we thought was needed. Yeah. We don't know, but the Lord's going to provide exactly what's needed. And may the Lord continue to give us faith to believe Him for that. And then take steps of faith, take actions that demonstrate our belief that He will provide what's needed. And I think that just helps us lean into that abundance mentality all the more. Man, you're taking me to church today, Tristan. I love it. This is good stuff. This is so important for us to grab a hold of it. You know, someone once said that man created God in his own image.

24:35 And I think sometimes we do that. We take our need and lack and not enough realities and we project that to God rather than remembering that we're created in the image of a God that overflowed in giving in all of creation. Every intricate detail and every broad expanse is the result of His giving. And then He gave His Son that whomsoever believes in Him, right? So this allowing that who God is to define who we are rather than defining God and limiting God and therefore our actions in how we see him. A friend of mine said, our view of God determines how well we live.

25:18 And it's so true that that poverty mentality limits a lot of what we do. That's really good. Our father is so generous. I wanted to touch on something else as we wrap up, Kristen. But one of the things I really appreciate about you in our conversations is this. And you referenced it a couple of times in this conversation as the obedience factor, the caring from God. But what do you sense prophetically? The Lord's laying on your heart in the season. So in your personal time with God and you're praying over the organization and you're praying over where God is leading things, what are some of the key themes that you're picking up on in the season?

25:59 Yeah, you know, I think a responsibility that we all have as followers of Jesus is to proclaim the truth of His gospel, to make known His grace among the nations. And I think so often we think this is this big act and we have to step out in faith and do this. And it is, but it first must rest in being deeply rooted in our relationship with Jesus. And so I think so often as we think about what's the big future and where are we going, I can't emphasize strongly enough the value of being so deeply rooted in Christ that as we move into the future and as we take on new projects, new initiatives, these innovative opportunities, that we have to be coming from a position of being so deeply rooted in Jesus that the attacks of the evil have no opportunity for taking us over because we know who we are in Jesus and we know the ultimate prize that we have in him and that that be the place out of which we operate.

27:09 And so it's almost going back to the basics type of mentality that we ought to bring to, that we can't do these great, big, wonderful things for the Lord if we're not first deeply rooted in Him and abide in His Word. And so that's just a call that I'm inviting our team to, inviting brothers and sisters to ensure that we're walking with our Savior as we seek to make Him known to others. I pray that those who listened to this podcast will hear those words because I think it's such a timely word for us that our bold steps of faith is rooted and grounded in the resting in our relationship with him.

27:55 Oh, my soul. How good is that? It's the starting blocks for the race, right? We all want to run the race, but we forget that you've got to start in that position of race. And that's actually the position that sets you up for the momentum and the steps of faith going forward. So good. Appreciate your time, Kristen. Thank you for sharing with us. I believe people will be encouraged. I'll continue to pray for you. I'm grateful that God has raised up a leader like you in a time like this, for a time like this. And grateful for your ministry, what EastWest is doing, and what we get to do together. Thank you for joining me today. And thank you. everyone listening in on our conversation today.

28:36 I hope you've been blessed as I've been blessed by this conversation as we continue to hit the ball out the park in our generation.