Sept. 22, 2026
Authenticity that Builds Trust with the Next Generation
In this conversation, Dan Blythe of Alpha Youth explores how faith communities can stay relevant without losing their core mission. From digital change and AI to trust, authenticity, and intergenerational leadership, this episode offers practical insight for reaching the next generation with humility, courage, and clarity.
For more information and resources, visit: https://www.nxtmove.global/
00:00 Introduction: Meeting Dan Blythe and the Mission of Alpha Youth
04:21 The Stripped Innocence: How COVID Accelerated Digital Transformation
05:35 The Search for Truth: What Gen Z Really Trusts
10:09 Is It Real? Authenticity in an AI-Generated World
11:16 Unashamed and Online: The Bold Evangelism of Gen Z
13:10 Ancient Truths in Relevant Ways: Using Tools Without Losing Relationship
14:09 Beyond Blockbuster: How Organizations Stay Relevant in Rapid Change
15:55 Clinging to Jesus Tightly, Everything Else Loosely
19:18 The Movies, Not the DVDs: Identifying Your Core Redemptive Gift
22:59 From Controlling to Inspiring: How Leadership Styles Must Evolve
28:14 Teaching Up: The Humility Required for Intergenerational Leadership
29:55 The Emperor's New Clothes: Creating Safe Spaces for Honest Feedback
31:49 Hope and Pause: The Unashamed Generation and the Communication Crisis
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Welcome to the Hitting the Ball You Cannot See podcast, where I get to hang out with some incredible leaders all around the world, and I get to have some conversations with them about the future of the faith and how the shifts in the world is impacting Christianity and our lives. And today, I've got a dear friend that I love and admire, and I'm so grateful for his giftedness and his work in the global church, Dan Blythe.
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is with Alpha Youth. But Dan, I'm going to have you tell a little more about yourself. And if you're going to be too humble, I'm going to call you out on it and ask you some questions about how amazing you are. But don't you want to introduce yourself, Dan?
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Yeah, sure. Thanks, Yuri. It's such an honor to be on this podcast. Yeah, I have been working with Alpha for five years. I've been in youth ministry for 20 years. This year, I'm celebrating 16 years of marriage to my wife, Charlie. She works in the anti-human trafficking world. So she is raising our two boys to be freedom fighters, and I'm raising our boys to be evangelists. And so we'll see what happens.
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World changer is about to happen right there. That alone gives me hope for the future, Dan. Dan, tell us a little more about, I mean, I think a lot of people would have context on Alpha, but just for the sake of those who might not have, what is Alpha and specifically, what are some of the things Alpha Youth is looking to do?
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Yeah. I mean, Alpha was created over 30 years ago. And one of the things I love about Alpha is the culture of it is in community. So it's not content you just watch by yourself online. It's actually something you do with friends. And it was created for Christians to invite their non-Christian friends to have conversations about faith,
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life, meaning, purpose, all that kind of stuff. And so Alpha's really peaked. Last year was the biggest year of Alpha in 2025, nearly 3 million people doing it. And the new You series, there's been about 900,000 teenagers across 91 countries doing it. I'm saying that not because I think Alpha's awesome. I think it's because God is doing something. Well, I think Alpha's awesome.
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I mean, it's just literally the essentials of Christianity done in a way where you can have a conversation. But I just think the current spiritual climate of what God is doing is kind of like culturally just right for Alpha. And there's loads of amazing tools. So, you know, some people use Alpha, some people don't. But for me, it's so encouraging when you...
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go to a local youth group and you've just seen they've run out for youth and they've invited a non-Christian friend, whether they've got a faith, they're Muslim, they're Hindu, they've got no faith, atheist, agnostic, but they feel like it was a safe space for a conversation. That for me makes what we've done worthwhile.
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Well, that's awesome. And I'm super stoked about what I'm not hearing you say about it, but what I'm hearing on the ground, people, lives being changed, people engaging the product or the program, and just hearing how they feel empowered by it, right? To share their faith, which is so important. Okay, so we're raising freedom fighters and evangelists.
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to reach a world that's changing. Okay. And in this podcast, we've had a conversation about the rates of change in the world. We then had an episode where we spoke about just how the human experience is changing and actually how people are changing
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engaging life differently, the definition of humanity, the whole digital engagement. And then we kind of went into a next week, which is this week, which is the conversation just around what does it look like for not the human experience, but the way humans organize life, right? So the whole concept of trust and the way organizations are reshaping to adapt to this adjusted human experience. And then...
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Next week, we'll kind of shift gears a little bit to speak more about relationships and connection and how that's adjusting over time. But Dan, you guys are doing a lot of work in not making sure that you don't dilute the gospel, but you translate the gospel into relevant ways. So over the last couple of years, I've had several conversations with you about how you guys are reworking some of the material, rethinking some of the material. Yeah.
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What are some of the shifts that you're identifying in the emerging generation and, you know, in humanity? How is it changing that's caused you to change things, right? So what are you seeing to be different that's making you make things different?
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Yeah, it's a great question. So I think COVID was like a lightning rod and sped everything up in the digital world, in the digital age. I think what's happened is as young persons sort of like, their innocence has been stripped away. And we're seeing younger teens ask the big questions that maybe teens were asking later on in life.
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So we're seeing 13, 14 year olds ask and wrestle with questions that maybe a 15, 16 year old millennial, you know, might have done. And that's because they're just exposed to so much. And you see that in lots of areas of life. So my son is seven. Like none of his mates believe in Santa. Like I believed in Santa until I was like 11. Until my parents said he wasn't real, I believed, you know.
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But for these guys, they're so exposed to different stuff. It's just like they tell each other and they hear it, they see it because their echo chamber is being dismantled because of the digital revolution. And so there is this real seeking for truth. What is truth? What does that look like?
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And I think really as parents, as youth leaders, as church leaders, to be able to have a conversation about truth is really important. And so to prepare ourselves for what that looks like, I think in this day and age is really important.
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So you touched on something. You said, well, you know, I believed in it until my parents said it wasn't true. Right? So there was a clear, you and I growing up, I don't want to put you in a category. You don't want to be, Dan. But, you know, give or take, the two of us growing up, we made up our truth based on what a parent said, what we read, what we saw. We believed those things. Right?
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There's a generation now that doesn't believe those things, right? So I don't want to call out any parents or grandparents and get in trouble for calling them out. But there are some people of a previous generation that might hypothetically be sending videos that's clearly AI generated as if it's true, right? Have you seen this? Right? So, but the generations have different perspectives. What are the drivers for truth? Right.
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for the emerging generation? What are the things that they're saying, you know, like we would say, well, if our parents said it's true, then it was true. Clearly that's not how our kids see it, right? If they see it on the news, it doesn't mean it's true. If I saw it on the news growing up, I believed it to be true. I saw it on the news. I saw it on the television. That's gotta be true. It isn't the case today. So what are the new drivers for truth?
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Yeah. Well, funnily enough, I think it's actually still the same thing. It's kind of parents. And we did a study with Barna Biblical World Vision called The Open Generation, where we listened to 25,000 teenagers across 26 countries. And when it said, where do you get your source of truth from? Or where would you trust what you're hearing from? The last thing was social media. And the number one was actually a parent.
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They would trust a parent more than they would a church leader or a youth pastor, which is good. And probably that's not surprising to us, right? That for you, you wanted to get truth from your parents. I want to get truth from my parents. Our kids want to get truth from our parents. So I think sometimes, especially in youth ministry, we outsourced the discipleship and the development of young people. And we just thought as long as the youth pastor is telling them the truth, I don't need to.
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actually I would say it's probably reversed. Young people are really saying to their parents and even grandparents, like, you know, what is truth? So I think now would be a day for parents to really be able to articulate the gospel, to articulate what discipleship looks like, and articulate maybe a way to wrestle with some of those questions that young people have got. And this is hard because sometimes as parents, you think, oh, I don't want to go anywhere near those questions. I don't have the answers. Yeah.
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But what we're seeing is actually young people don't mind so much if you don't have the answers, but they do just want to journey with you in the exploration of the answers. So I think my challenge would be how can you keep that door open for conversation and dialogue, whether it's over breakfast, lunch, dinner, picking them up after school or sports, whatever. Keep that curiosity and that fostering of questions, because that's going to be really key in enabling them to find out what is truth.
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Dan, that's so powerful because I think you're touching on something which, you know, in the book, Hitting the Ball You Can't See, part of this answer to a generation that's struggling with trust, right? This revolution around trust that, you know, is distrust is rife. But to your point, the things people trust are still the ancient things, right? It's not new things that they trust. It's ancient things that they trust. Yeah.
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And it's this thing that comes through in study after study about authenticity, right? The authentic presentation of the gospel is going to be the thing that breaks through this lack of trust or this new set of things that they trust. And I think what becomes more and more important is this idea of the incarnation of Christ.
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Right? Embodying Christ, having that relationship, because information is rife. I mean, there's no lack of information today, but the reality is that, you know, young people aren't looking for just information. They're looking for relationship, right? So they'll trust it if they see it incarnated in your life, if they see it shared through your life. They'll trust it ten times more than social media. But, you know, you...
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very accurately articulate this idea of us wanting to delegate or abdicate our responsibility and say, oh, no, you know, let's find something. Let's get something to do it. So how do we walk that tightrope of empowering people to share the truth and to incarnate and have the conversation themselves while not giving them an excuse to just, you know, put on the alpha video and step away from the conversation? So sorry, that's not a softball question. But, you know, how do you guys deal with that tension?
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Yeah, I mean the pursuit of truth is, you know, every generation goes in it. And I think the way that question is asked by this generation is like, is it real? And so you said about AI, you know, there's a beautiful video of these teenagers watching, there's a handful of AI videos and non AI videos. And the question is, is this AI or not? And the teenagers could not tell. They were getting all wrong. The ones that they thought were real life were AI. The ones that they thought were AI were real life. And so there's this blurred line of what is real.
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And even my kids, we had FIFA, which is a game that you play on a computer, and they think that Chelsea's actually playing real life. And then later on, I put on Chelsea playing real life. And again, they thought it's FIFA. They're like, who's got the controller? So they could not tell what is a real football game and what is fake.
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So I think, yes, so the question is, is that how do we continue to share, to create in a way in which a generation of Gen Z and Gen Alphas will know, okay, that is real. So I think, first of all, it comes down to the sharing online and offline.
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And so when I see teenagers sharing their faith, sharing the gospel online and offline, whether it's with their friends, whether it's on stage, there is an authenticity, you know, like you've mentioned, like because they're looking for authenticity, they also really don't want to share in a way that's not authentic. And so you see teenagers sharing the gospel. And what I love about teenagers sharing the gospel, there's always loads of people like just saying, this is rubbish. Don't agree with this. You've been brainwashed. And so when a teenager shares their faith with their mates online,
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there's nothing really for them to gain other than just doing it because they're trying to be obedient to sharing the gospel and being unashamed of the gospel. So I think when young people share a story, know that that's actually cost them a lot. It's their reputation, but this is the boldness of being full of the Holy Spirit and sharing. And we should really celebrate that. And when a young person shares like in a church setting or youth setting online, we as older generations, we got to be their biggest encourager to saying like, well done, we know that.
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that that costs you a lot but you know well done for not being like um ashamed but being being unashamed um for us alpha like the way we did this is when um we filmed a story there was 26 stories in the series we paid every single person apart from the people who were telling their stories now that might sound harsh but the reason is because it's like we don't want anyone to feel like they had to say something um
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in the series because they're being paid. And if we said like, right, you're getting $500 for telling your story, they might feel like they have to say like this or do it like that. But we wanted to just say, look, this is your story. And if God's done something in your life, whether it's healing, salvation, whatever, you tell it in your way and we're just going to share it. So I think every day as ministries and churches, we have decisions to make. And those decisions are like what is going to create that level of authenticity
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and offline
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I love that. I love that. Because even getting them to tell the story is a form of empowerment, right? So it's one of the things I love about Alpha. It's not a program that's the be-all and the end-all. It's the program that sets up the conversation, right? So even in presenting the program, you're doing it through conversation. But I think that really is key for, I mean, a lot of the people that would engage this are leaders asking the question, how do I adjust my youth group or how do I adjust my church or how do I adjust my parenting?
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you know, to reach the next generation or to stay relevant to the future. And I really think this is so key, right? So use the tools that's available. But remember that it's the ancient truths of relationship that really matters. But use these tools in a relevant way to address, you know, what people see as truth and what they believe. What would you say if we're just, you know, kind of switching gears a little bit to organizations, right? So...
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the way the narrative comes together for me is people are changing. People are engaging digital more, and that's impacting further, accelerating how people are changing. That's changing what we trust and how we think about trust, kind of amplifying this incarnation and, you know, authenticity theme. But then that...
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has spilled over into the change of organizations, right? So how organizations are working differently, you know? So one of the things we do in chapter six of the book is take the blockbuster story, right? How this giant of renting DVDs, you know, running Friday nights, right?
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And they had no idea that it's about to change entirely with people being able to download media. I mean, I asked my kids the other day, what's a blockbuster? And they couldn't, they had a very good movie. They had no idea what I was even referring to. And I realized that
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Society is changing so quickly and even the organizations are shifting so quickly that I think a lot of us that are in leadership organizations are looking at this and we're going, how with the rate of change, how do I not become the next blockbuster?
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Within the context of Alpha, some would look at you and say, okay, this is a legacy organization, right? But to your point, you just peaked. So you're not living off a legacy. You're living off a future. You're making a difference in this age. How's Alpha managing that? How are you staying relevant in the midst of all these changes and not falling back and being threatened by your own success? Yes.
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Yeah, I mean, I think the root of that question really comes down to what is your motivation for what you're doing. And the thing is, if we are doing it just for the name of Alpha, then there's a lot of fear attached to, you know, change and, you know, pressure to actually have to evolve. But I think if we're just looking at like...
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you know, we're just simply stewarding what God has given us to steward. And if, you know, in 10 years time, the pendulum swings and evangelism is not in community, in circle, you know, it is more just like Billy Graham style and we're gathering in stadiums and that's the one way.
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I hope as an organization, we're not going to be really upset that what's happening has changed, but we can either support other ministries that have got that model, or we can adapt to Alpha in a way that can function around that model. And so I think, you know, I remember when I was younger at Bible College, age 18, they just said to me then, like, just cling to Jesus tightly and everything else loosely.
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The moment you cling to the organization tightly and Jesus loosely, you know, that's when things start getting a little bit tricky. And so, you know, I think for me, always being in an organization where there is an innovation wing, which is where you've got your people praying, you've got people interceding, a little bit like Daniel, like really kind of reading the science of what's happening and then creating space margin for you to take risks and try stuff. Yeah.
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if you're going to be evolving and you're going to be able to change to be able to work in the current climate or where things are at, you need to be able to build, measure, learn, right? You need to be able to test some stuff, especially if you've got people's jobs on the line, you've got a lot of money on the line, all that kind of stuff. And so to be able to...
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create space within your organization for innovation. It's not something that all of a sudden you say, right, 2026, we're going to be innovative. Culturally, you need to build in space where you can be trying stuff, failing a lot, learning from the failure, trying again.
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So good. So it's that lab mentality of continual innovation, right? So trying all the time, asking the questions, holding on to the mission above the method is such a big deal. So that why behind it, I love that. So here's a tension I'm seeing, Dan, and maybe you can help me solve this a little bit, right? So on the one hand, I think it's really important for organizations to understand what's their essential gift.
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Right. So what's the thing that God, what's the redemptive gift? What's the thing that only they can do? What's the contribution to the greater kingdom that God has invested in them and sticking to that, right? Don't do, don't try and be all things to all people, but do that thing which God has given you to do. That's the one side of the equation.
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The other side of the equation is what you're referring to as innovation, right? It's continuing to try new things, right? So, but these two things can very quickly be intention, right? Because on the one hand, you're trying to innovate, try new things, you know, keep staying relevant, having a culture of innovation. But on the other hand, you want to stick to what you've been called to do and the thing that God has given you to do and not trying to be all things to all people.
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I don't know that I have any answers, but do you have any thoughts on that? Are there any guidelines? I don't know that this is a tension to be resolved as much as it is ones we live with, but what's your thoughts on this?
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Well, if you take your blockbuster analogy, which I think you delivered so well in the book, you know, so their message, so to speak, was just movies, right? But the method was it went from VHS to DVDs and they were good as long as you had a physical thing that you could have in store. What they weren't ready to do was deal with movies downloadable on an app, you know, and they didn't make that shift.
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So for us, if you're an organization, I'm like thinking like, so what is your movies? Like what is the need? What is that thing that, you know, your heart breaks for? And that's why you do what you do. So my wife's organization, A21, is anti-human trafficking. You know, their heart breaks for those getting trafficked. And so the method of how they help people get in,
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traffic is always going to change. It's always going to look different, but they know what they're about. Same with Alpha. We're about helping non-Christians come into a space to have a conversation with Christians about faith. I mean, our heart is for the lost. And so I think as long as you know your why, Simon Sinek classic line, but as long as you know that need that your heart breaks for, I think the method can always be shifted out. I think you said it. It's like when we won't take that risk,
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of letting go of the method, letting go of the tradition, letting go of the thing that has always enabled us to do what we do. It takes very secure leaders. But ultimately, every organization is different and what risk looks like is different. It's very easy for me to say this. Now, I don't run my own organization. I haven't invested 40 years of my own life into an organization. But I do think if you really just want to trust God in the future,
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in a place where you're giving him all the glory and it's about him, not you, not the name of your ministry, then this way of living causes a lot of faith. And I think it's a really healthy place to live. I love that. It's figuring out what to hold on to tightly and what to hold on to loosely. So if you know what is that core thing, it wasn't DVDs and it wasn't VHS for Blockbuster. It was people watching movies at home.
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If they held on to that core thing and they kept on innovating around that, we might all be watching things on Blockbuster, not on Netflix today, right? Because the reality is they were so caught up in the method that they missed the point. And I think the church has a tendency to do that, Dan.
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We love holding on to our methods and creating denominations around our ways rather than continuing to innovate the ways while holding on to the way with all our hearts. And may we not be those guys that mess up, forget about the way, and we just focus on the ways.
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Yeah. Shifting gears here a little bit. Speak to me about leadership, Dan. You're a global leader. I mean, you're so articulate. You're doing such a good job of just helping inspire and translate and accelerate leaders around the world to share the gospel.
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but what are some of the things, you know, as the landscape is changing, it isn't just the what we do and how we do it that's changing. It's also the tool, right? The leaders need to change. So what are some of the things that you're seeing as key categories
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characteristics of leaders of the future as you're meeting with leaders as you're meeting with people what are some of the things that you're looking for in this and at this time where you say man these are key skills or these are key attributes of leaders as we head into this new day
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Yeah, there's a great book by McQuindle called Gen Alpha. And in that book, he kind of states the different leadership styles of the generations. And so just to paraphrase it, he's like the baby boomers, they are controlling, their leadership styles are controlling. And it's not like baby boomers are woken up going, oh, I'm gonna control everybody today. They grew up in a time of war. And when you're at war,
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you got no time for like a feedback survey or ask how your feelings are. Right. So like control and command ultimately saves lives. And so, you know, their style was naturally controlling and they got a lot done. Very, very generous generation. A lot of churches that we see now, yeah,
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movements denominations happen because of that generous generation. Move to like Gen X's, which are like the parents of Gen Z, and they were coordinating, they started moving with the team. Gen Y, millennials, my generation, we were guiding, instead of like telling you what to do, we would do it with you like an older brother, older sister. And then Gen Z... Guide from the side rather than say from the stage, right? That's it. That's exactly it. Yeah.
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And then Gen Z, they're empowering. So they like to empower one another. They like to be empowered. And then Gen Alpha, they said they're going to be inspiring. So even though kind of growing up in a time where a lot of war and pain and suffering around them, they're growing up with a sense of hope and they will inspire you to do so.
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We'll see what happens with Gen Alpha. But I think all of that to say is I think that the best leaders today are the ones which are not clinging again to their leadership style, but they will be adaptive with their leadership style. And so where maybe the kind of dictatorial, controlling kind of leadership style might have worked before, might not work now if you are leading Gen Z. And so I think leading Gen Z takes a lot more time. Yeah.
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It involves sitting around the table with them a bit more, explaining the why a bit more, getting their buy-in a bit more, helping them to share where they see blind spots, our blind spots as leaders. So I think it takes security, takes vulnerability, takes listening. But if you're willing to do all of that, then you can really lead kind of Gen Z. I chat to some church leaders and ministry leaders, and they're like, I ain't got time for Gen Z. And that's fine. You know, everyone can do what they need to do. But...
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I don't have time for the future. Count me out. Exactly. So Gen Z are the biggest generation on the planet and Gen Alpha the second biggest. I think Gen Z are 25%, Gen Alpha 24%, something like that. And now brands and companies and everybody else listen to Gen Z because if they don't, they're not going to have a future. And so for some church leaders, I try and gently encourage them. I'm saying I understand it might be –
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a bit painful for you to work with Gen Z because it's not the style of leadership you're used to, but I encourage you purely because biblically we're meant to work with the generations. Secondly, because Jesus would always, you know, create space for the youngest. Thirdly, because if you want a future for your church, your ministry, you're going to have to at some point. And I think it's a beautiful thing when we do adapt our leadership style to work with a younger generation.
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I love that, Dan. And I think it's so powerful because it's the, you know, you didn't explicitly say this, but it's woven in there, is that one generation has the ability to reach the next, but it's very hard to skip a generation, right? So it's harder for a millennial to reach Gen Alpha than what it's going to be for a Gen Z to reach Gen Alpha, right? Because there's less bridging that needs to happen from one generation to the next.
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So I think that's really good because I think it's this concept of incremental obedience, right? Or incremental perspective is you don't have to see the whole thing to change the whole thing. You just need to see the next step and take it. But you touch on a skill there, which I want to double click on a little bit. And that's listening to younger leaders, right? So essentially what I'm hearing you say, and tell me if I'm mishearing you, is, okay, let's say I'm a leader. I'm looking at this. I'm saying, well, reaching Gen Alpha, reaching Gen Z, it's a step too far.
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I can't get there as a leader. What I'm hearing you say is it's okay, but engage a leader that can get there, right, in conversation and engage them in that conversation to get there, right? There's this whole silent revival happening in spaces. I still think it's more islands of revival and an ocean of depravity, but I'm excited about the islands, but it's not yet what I'd call a revival. It's just islands of renewal happening, and I'm super stoked about it.
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But we need to keep praying for revival because revival changes society. It's not just a young person showing up with a Bible asking, you know, who's Jesus. It's a little more than that. It's the start and I love it and I'm excited about it, but we need to blow on those embers is all I'm saying. But as we're blowing on those embers, how do you call those young people into leadership? And there's risk involved again, right? We've been talking about risk a lot, which kind of leans to trust, but...
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What are some of the key things in engaging those leaders? What do we need to watch out for? What do we need to do? I'm a leader. I'm saying, yes, I want to engage the next generation. You're saying I need to invite leaders in. What do I need to know?
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What questions do I need to ask? Yeah. First of all, I'd say it's not so much about the questions you need to ask. First of all, it's like, you know, are you ready to be in a position of humility? Because it takes humble leaders to be able to do this, to be able to say, I might not know everything, but you might. And remember, Gen Z are one of the most knowledgeable generations on the planet because they've got so much access to stuff. And this is the first time we've seen generations, younger generations, teaching up.
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So like you see Gen Z teaching their parents how to use their smartphone, how to download this app, how to do this. We've never, we've never really seen that before. It's always been education down, but now it's, it's going up. And I think Gen Z have got a lot to add and a lot to bring up, but it takes
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humility both ways. It takes the humility of the elders to listen and then it takes the humility of the youngers to be able to say it in a way which isn't like pointing the finger you're wrong, you need to change, but like appreciating that actually a lot of these guys have given their whole life
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you know, to see the kingdom come and his will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So let's respectfully, you know, thank them for all they've done. But I think when you get that collaboration between the generations happening, it's one of the most beautiful things. It's beautiful because you don't see it in the world. In the world, there's so much segregation and separation between generations, so much like,
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pointing the finger, being judgmental. But in the church, if we could model to the world what that looks like, that intergenerational collaboration, I think this would be one of the most exciting things of the next five to 10 years, because that just really hasn't happened before. And then I think the questions that kind of come up between the different generations is really like, you know, number one, what are you seeing? And what am I not seeing?
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And so it takes a very secure leader to say, like, what am I not seeing? What are my blind spots? Help me out. And the thing is, like, when I think about people who tell me the honest truth, they're probably like my family members or my closest friends. They're like, Dan, you've got like a massive piece of lettuce in your tooth. You need to get that out, you know. But, you know, we can be surrounded by people who… I think you're eating lettuce. It could have been brisket. So well done. Well done for having some lettuce. Yeah, yeah. Thanks.
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But you know what? Often, if you're surrounded by people who would not tell you that you've got letters in your teeth, then ultimately you are in this own little echo chamber. You know, the emperor's clothes, the emperor was naked. He didn't know because everyone told me he had clothes on. And it was only in the story, if you know the story, it was only a young person that said, why is the emperor naked? And then everyone starts laughing.
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Um, but if you're surrounded by people who will tell you, you got letters in your teeth, tell you, you got no clothes on, then you will be walking in a really safe relationship. And that's the healthiest place to do ministry. So I guess my question would be like, who have you got in your world of different generations who you can ask those deep questions to, and who can ask you those deep questions to, because that that's needed trust and relationship.
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I love that, Dan. It's so powerful, this concept of, you know, because even if we give a list of questions and the wrong posture is in place, we'll never get anywhere. But if we have the right posture, then we'll figure out the questions as we go.
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So that posture of humility, that posture of engagement really is the key in this journey. We've got to wrap up. We're running out of time here, Dan. But I want to ask you a question as you kind of survey the landscape. What gives you hope and what gives you pause? What excites you and you go, man, this makes me really hopeful for what lies ahead. And this gives me a little bit of pause. This gives me a bit of concern. I'm not sure how we're going to deal with that.
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Yeah, great question. I think the thing that makes me hopeful is that because this generation has been labeled the anxious generation, I thought that that would mean that there'd be no evangelism, that their fear, worry, anxiety stops them from sharing the gospel. Yeah, but what I'm seeing, filled with the Holy Spirit, they're actually more bold, more confident, more courageous than I've seen previous generations, like online and offline. And so I'm really hopeful that actually, yes, the world might call them the anxious generation, but I think God says they're the unashamed of the gospel generation. Love it.
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And they are absolutely going for it, inviting and sharing. The thing that I'd press pause on would be, you know, we've just spoke about, you know, dialogue between the different generations. The digital revolution is causing a lot of our dialogue to be WhatsApp, DMs, emails and text.
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The problem with that is that is just words. And Albert Meribin, Sir Albert Meribin, is a psychologist and did some research on this. And he said, when it comes to communication, 45% of it is body language, 50% of it is tone of voice, and 5% of it is text. And if you take away body language and tone of voice, you're just left with text. And if you ever send a text to someone and they've taken it the wrong way, you know, what you meant to say. That's never happened to me, Dan. I have no idea what you're talking about.
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I don't know. I mean, emojis help us. At least you can put a thumbs up at the end or, you know, something. But, but I would say the thing that gives me pause is, um, we like things getting done quick. And because of that, we text, email, DM, we're like, let's just get it done. But I think if we slow down and make as much of a, much of our communication between generations, face to face, over dinner, FaceTime, Zoom, whatever. So you can get the body language and the tone of voice. There'll be so much more health. It might mean a bit slower, but, um,
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But if we're thinking, let's be going forward for the next five, ten years together, rather than the next ten weeks together, then slower might actually be healthier. I love it. I love it. Dan, as always, chatting with you is a great privilege. And I'm always stirred and encouraged by what God is doing through you and in you. Likewise. And continuing to pray for you and cheer you on. Thank you for being part of the conversation. And looking forward to see where God might take all of this. Thanks, Yuri. Appreciate you.
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Welcome to the Hitting the Ball You Cannot See podcast, where I get to hang out with some incredible leaders all around the world, and I get to have some conversations with them about the future of the faith and how the shifts in the world is impacting Christianity and our lives. And today, I've got a dear friend that I love and admire, and I'm so grateful for his giftedness and his work in the global church, Dan Blythe.
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is with Alpha Youth. But Dan, I'm going to have you tell a little more about yourself. And if you're going to be too humble, I'm going to call you out on it and ask you some questions about how amazing you are. But don't you want to introduce yourself, Dan?
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Yeah, sure. Thanks, Yuri. It's such an honor to be on this podcast. Yeah, I have been working with Alpha for five years. I've been in youth ministry for 20 years. This year, I'm celebrating 16 years of marriage to my wife, Charlie. She works in the anti-human trafficking world. So she is raising our two boys to be freedom fighters, and I'm raising our boys to be evangelists. And so we'll see what happens.
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World changer is about to happen right there. That alone gives me hope for the future, Dan. Dan, tell us a little more about, I mean, I think a lot of people would have context on Alpha, but just for the sake of those who might not have, what is Alpha and specifically, what are some of the things Alpha Youth is looking to do?
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Yeah. I mean, Alpha was created over 30 years ago. And one of the things I love about Alpha is the culture of it is in community. So it's not content you just watch by yourself online. It's actually something you do with friends. And it was created for Christians to invite their non-Christian friends to have conversations about faith,
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life, meaning, purpose, all that kind of stuff. And so Alpha's really peaked. Last year was the biggest year of Alpha in 2025, nearly 3 million people doing it. And the new You series, there's been about 900,000 teenagers across 91 countries doing it. I'm saying that not because I think Alpha's awesome. I think it's because God is doing something. Well, I think Alpha's awesome.
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I mean, it's just literally the essentials of Christianity done in a way where you can have a conversation. But I just think the current spiritual climate of what God is doing is kind of like culturally just right for Alpha. And there's loads of amazing tools. So, you know, some people use Alpha, some people don't. But for me, it's so encouraging when you...
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go to a local youth group and you've just seen they've run out for youth and they've invited a non-Christian friend, whether they've got a faith, they're Muslim, they're Hindu, they've got no faith, atheist, agnostic, but they feel like it was a safe space for a conversation. That for me makes what we've done worthwhile.
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Well, that's awesome. And I'm super stoked about what I'm not hearing you say about it, but what I'm hearing on the ground, people, lives being changed, people engaging the product or the program, and just hearing how they feel empowered by it, right? To share their faith, which is so important. Okay, so we're raising freedom fighters and evangelists.
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to reach a world that's changing. Okay. And in this podcast, we've had a conversation about the rates of change in the world. We then had an episode where we spoke about just how the human experience is changing and actually how people are changing
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engaging life differently, the definition of humanity, the whole digital engagement. And then we kind of went into a next week, which is this week, which is the conversation just around what does it look like for not the human experience, but the way humans organize life, right? So the whole concept of trust and the way organizations are reshaping to adapt to this adjusted human experience. And then...
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Next week, we'll kind of shift gears a little bit to speak more about relationships and connection and how that's adjusting over time. But Dan, you guys are doing a lot of work in not making sure that you don't dilute the gospel, but you translate the gospel into relevant ways. So over the last couple of years, I've had several conversations with you about how you guys are reworking some of the material, rethinking some of the material. Yeah.
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What are some of the shifts that you're identifying in the emerging generation and, you know, in humanity? How is it changing that's caused you to change things, right? So what are you seeing to be different that's making you make things different?
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Yeah, it's a great question. So I think COVID was like a lightning rod and sped everything up in the digital world, in the digital age. I think what's happened is as young persons sort of like, their innocence has been stripped away. And we're seeing younger teens ask the big questions that maybe teens were asking later on in life.
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So we're seeing 13, 14 year olds ask and wrestle with questions that maybe a 15, 16 year old millennial, you know, might have done. And that's because they're just exposed to so much. And you see that in lots of areas of life. So my son is seven. Like none of his mates believe in Santa. Like I believed in Santa until I was like 11. Until my parents said he wasn't real, I believed, you know.
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But for these guys, they're so exposed to different stuff. It's just like they tell each other and they hear it, they see it because their echo chamber is being dismantled because of the digital revolution. And so there is this real seeking for truth. What is truth? What does that look like?
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And I think really as parents, as youth leaders, as church leaders, to be able to have a conversation about truth is really important. And so to prepare ourselves for what that looks like, I think in this day and age is really important.
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So you touched on something. You said, well, you know, I believed in it until my parents said it wasn't true. Right? So there was a clear, you and I growing up, I don't want to put you in a category. You don't want to be, Dan. But, you know, give or take, the two of us growing up, we made up our truth based on what a parent said, what we read, what we saw. We believed those things. Right?
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There's a generation now that doesn't believe those things, right? So I don't want to call out any parents or grandparents and get in trouble for calling them out. But there are some people of a previous generation that might hypothetically be sending videos that's clearly AI generated as if it's true, right? Have you seen this? Right? So, but the generations have different perspectives. What are the drivers for truth? Right.
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for the emerging generation? What are the things that they're saying, you know, like we would say, well, if our parents said it's true, then it was true. Clearly that's not how our kids see it, right? If they see it on the news, it doesn't mean it's true. If I saw it on the news growing up, I believed it to be true. I saw it on the news. I saw it on the television. That's gotta be true. It isn't the case today. So what are the new drivers for truth?
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Yeah. Well, funnily enough, I think it's actually still the same thing. It's kind of parents. And we did a study with Barna Biblical World Vision called The Open Generation, where we listened to 25,000 teenagers across 26 countries. And when it said, where do you get your source of truth from? Or where would you trust what you're hearing from? The last thing was social media. And the number one was actually a parent.
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They would trust a parent more than they would a church leader or a youth pastor, which is good. And probably that's not surprising to us, right? That for you, you wanted to get truth from your parents. I want to get truth from my parents. Our kids want to get truth from our parents. So I think sometimes, especially in youth ministry, we outsourced the discipleship and the development of young people. And we just thought as long as the youth pastor is telling them the truth, I don't need to.
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actually I would say it's probably reversed. Young people are really saying to their parents and even grandparents, like, you know, what is truth? So I think now would be a day for parents to really be able to articulate the gospel, to articulate what discipleship looks like, and articulate maybe a way to wrestle with some of those questions that young people have got. And this is hard because sometimes as parents, you think, oh, I don't want to go anywhere near those questions. I don't have the answers. Yeah.
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But what we're seeing is actually young people don't mind so much if you don't have the answers, but they do just want to journey with you in the exploration of the answers. So I think my challenge would be how can you keep that door open for conversation and dialogue, whether it's over breakfast, lunch, dinner, picking them up after school or sports, whatever. Keep that curiosity and that fostering of questions, because that's going to be really key in enabling them to find out what is truth.
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Dan, that's so powerful because I think you're touching on something which, you know, in the book, Hitting the Ball You Can't See, part of this answer to a generation that's struggling with trust, right? This revolution around trust that, you know, is distrust is rife. But to your point, the things people trust are still the ancient things, right? It's not new things that they trust. It's ancient things that they trust. Yeah.
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And it's this thing that comes through in study after study about authenticity, right? The authentic presentation of the gospel is going to be the thing that breaks through this lack of trust or this new set of things that they trust. And I think what becomes more and more important is this idea of the incarnation of Christ.
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Right? Embodying Christ, having that relationship, because information is rife. I mean, there's no lack of information today, but the reality is that, you know, young people aren't looking for just information. They're looking for relationship, right? So they'll trust it if they see it incarnated in your life, if they see it shared through your life. They'll trust it ten times more than social media. But, you know, you...
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very accurately articulate this idea of us wanting to delegate or abdicate our responsibility and say, oh, no, you know, let's find something. Let's get something to do it. So how do we walk that tightrope of empowering people to share the truth and to incarnate and have the conversation themselves while not giving them an excuse to just, you know, put on the alpha video and step away from the conversation? So sorry, that's not a softball question. But, you know, how do you guys deal with that tension?
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Yeah, I mean the pursuit of truth is, you know, every generation goes in it. And I think the way that question is asked by this generation is like, is it real? And so you said about AI, you know, there's a beautiful video of these teenagers watching, there's a handful of AI videos and non AI videos. And the question is, is this AI or not? And the teenagers could not tell. They were getting all wrong. The ones that they thought were real life were AI. The ones that they thought were AI were real life. And so there's this blurred line of what is real.
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And even my kids, we had FIFA, which is a game that you play on a computer, and they think that Chelsea's actually playing real life. And then later on, I put on Chelsea playing real life. And again, they thought it's FIFA. They're like, who's got the controller? So they could not tell what is a real football game and what is fake.
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So I think, yes, so the question is, is that how do we continue to share, to create in a way in which a generation of Gen Z and Gen Alphas will know, okay, that is real. So I think, first of all, it comes down to the sharing online and offline.
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And so when I see teenagers sharing their faith, sharing the gospel online and offline, whether it's with their friends, whether it's on stage, there is an authenticity, you know, like you've mentioned, like because they're looking for authenticity, they also really don't want to share in a way that's not authentic. And so you see teenagers sharing the gospel. And what I love about teenagers sharing the gospel, there's always loads of people like just saying, this is rubbish. Don't agree with this. You've been brainwashed. And so when a teenager shares their faith with their mates online,
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there's nothing really for them to gain other than just doing it because they're trying to be obedient to sharing the gospel and being unashamed of the gospel. So I think when young people share a story, know that that's actually cost them a lot. It's their reputation, but this is the boldness of being full of the Holy Spirit and sharing. And we should really celebrate that. And when a young person shares like in a church setting or youth setting online, we as older generations, we got to be their biggest encourager to saying like, well done, we know that.
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that that costs you a lot but you know well done for not being like um ashamed but being being unashamed um for us alpha like the way we did this is when um we filmed a story there was 26 stories in the series we paid every single person apart from the people who were telling their stories now that might sound harsh but the reason is because it's like we don't want anyone to feel like they had to say something um
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in the series because they're being paid. And if we said like, right, you're getting $500 for telling your story, they might feel like they have to say like this or do it like that. But we wanted to just say, look, this is your story. And if God's done something in your life, whether it's healing, salvation, whatever, you tell it in your way and we're just going to share it. So I think every day as ministries and churches, we have decisions to make. And those decisions are like what is going to create that level of authenticity
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and offline
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I love that. I love that. Because even getting them to tell the story is a form of empowerment, right? So it's one of the things I love about Alpha. It's not a program that's the be-all and the end-all. It's the program that sets up the conversation, right? So even in presenting the program, you're doing it through conversation. But I think that really is key for, I mean, a lot of the people that would engage this are leaders asking the question, how do I adjust my youth group or how do I adjust my church or how do I adjust my parenting?
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you know, to reach the next generation or to stay relevant to the future. And I really think this is so key, right? So use the tools that's available. But remember that it's the ancient truths of relationship that really matters. But use these tools in a relevant way to address, you know, what people see as truth and what they believe. What would you say if we're just, you know, kind of switching gears a little bit to organizations, right? So...
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the way the narrative comes together for me is people are changing. People are engaging digital more, and that's impacting further, accelerating how people are changing. That's changing what we trust and how we think about trust, kind of amplifying this incarnation and, you know, authenticity theme. But then that...
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has spilled over into the change of organizations, right? So how organizations are working differently, you know? So one of the things we do in chapter six of the book is take the blockbuster story, right? How this giant of renting DVDs, you know, running Friday nights, right?
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And they had no idea that it's about to change entirely with people being able to download media. I mean, I asked my kids the other day, what's a blockbuster? And they couldn't, they had a very good movie. They had no idea what I was even referring to. And I realized that
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Society is changing so quickly and even the organizations are shifting so quickly that I think a lot of us that are in leadership organizations are looking at this and we're going, how with the rate of change, how do I not become the next blockbuster?
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Within the context of Alpha, some would look at you and say, okay, this is a legacy organization, right? But to your point, you just peaked. So you're not living off a legacy. You're living off a future. You're making a difference in this age. How's Alpha managing that? How are you staying relevant in the midst of all these changes and not falling back and being threatened by your own success? Yes.
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Yeah, I mean, I think the root of that question really comes down to what is your motivation for what you're doing. And the thing is, if we are doing it just for the name of Alpha, then there's a lot of fear attached to, you know, change and, you know, pressure to actually have to evolve. But I think if we're just looking at like...
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you know, we're just simply stewarding what God has given us to steward. And if, you know, in 10 years time, the pendulum swings and evangelism is not in community, in circle, you know, it is more just like Billy Graham style and we're gathering in stadiums and that's the one way.
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I hope as an organization, we're not going to be really upset that what's happening has changed, but we can either support other ministries that have got that model, or we can adapt to Alpha in a way that can function around that model. And so I think, you know, I remember when I was younger at Bible College, age 18, they just said to me then, like, just cling to Jesus tightly and everything else loosely.
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The moment you cling to the organization tightly and Jesus loosely, you know, that's when things start getting a little bit tricky. And so, you know, I think for me, always being in an organization where there is an innovation wing, which is where you've got your people praying, you've got people interceding, a little bit like Daniel, like really kind of reading the science of what's happening and then creating space margin for you to take risks and try stuff. Yeah.
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if you're going to be evolving and you're going to be able to change to be able to work in the current climate or where things are at, you need to be able to build, measure, learn, right? You need to be able to test some stuff, especially if you've got people's jobs on the line, you've got a lot of money on the line, all that kind of stuff. And so to be able to...
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create space within your organization for innovation. It's not something that all of a sudden you say, right, 2026, we're going to be innovative. Culturally, you need to build in space where you can be trying stuff, failing a lot, learning from the failure, trying again.
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So good. So it's that lab mentality of continual innovation, right? So trying all the time, asking the questions, holding on to the mission above the method is such a big deal. So that why behind it, I love that. So here's a tension I'm seeing, Dan, and maybe you can help me solve this a little bit, right? So on the one hand, I think it's really important for organizations to understand what's their essential gift.
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Right. So what's the thing that God, what's the redemptive gift? What's the thing that only they can do? What's the contribution to the greater kingdom that God has invested in them and sticking to that, right? Don't do, don't try and be all things to all people, but do that thing which God has given you to do. That's the one side of the equation.
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The other side of the equation is what you're referring to as innovation, right? It's continuing to try new things, right? So, but these two things can very quickly be intention, right? Because on the one hand, you're trying to innovate, try new things, you know, keep staying relevant, having a culture of innovation. But on the other hand, you want to stick to what you've been called to do and the thing that God has given you to do and not trying to be all things to all people.
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I don't know that I have any answers, but do you have any thoughts on that? Are there any guidelines? I don't know that this is a tension to be resolved as much as it is ones we live with, but what's your thoughts on this?
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Well, if you take your blockbuster analogy, which I think you delivered so well in the book, you know, so their message, so to speak, was just movies, right? But the method was it went from VHS to DVDs and they were good as long as you had a physical thing that you could have in store. What they weren't ready to do was deal with movies downloadable on an app, you know, and they didn't make that shift.
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So for us, if you're an organization, I'm like thinking like, so what is your movies? Like what is the need? What is that thing that, you know, your heart breaks for? And that's why you do what you do. So my wife's organization, A21, is anti-human trafficking. You know, their heart breaks for those getting trafficked. And so the method of how they help people get in,
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traffic is always going to change. It's always going to look different, but they know what they're about. Same with Alpha. We're about helping non-Christians come into a space to have a conversation with Christians about faith. I mean, our heart is for the lost. And so I think as long as you know your why, Simon Sinek classic line, but as long as you know that need that your heart breaks for, I think the method can always be shifted out. I think you said it. It's like when we won't take that risk,
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of letting go of the method, letting go of the tradition, letting go of the thing that has always enabled us to do what we do. It takes very secure leaders. But ultimately, every organization is different and what risk looks like is different. It's very easy for me to say this. Now, I don't run my own organization. I haven't invested 40 years of my own life into an organization. But I do think if you really just want to trust God in the future,
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in a place where you're giving him all the glory and it's about him, not you, not the name of your ministry, then this way of living causes a lot of faith. And I think it's a really healthy place to live. I love that. It's figuring out what to hold on to tightly and what to hold on to loosely. So if you know what is that core thing, it wasn't DVDs and it wasn't VHS for Blockbuster. It was people watching movies at home.
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If they held on to that core thing and they kept on innovating around that, we might all be watching things on Blockbuster, not on Netflix today, right? Because the reality is they were so caught up in the method that they missed the point. And I think the church has a tendency to do that, Dan.
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We love holding on to our methods and creating denominations around our ways rather than continuing to innovate the ways while holding on to the way with all our hearts. And may we not be those guys that mess up, forget about the way, and we just focus on the ways.
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Yeah. Shifting gears here a little bit. Speak to me about leadership, Dan. You're a global leader. I mean, you're so articulate. You're doing such a good job of just helping inspire and translate and accelerate leaders around the world to share the gospel.
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but what are some of the things, you know, as the landscape is changing, it isn't just the what we do and how we do it that's changing. It's also the tool, right? The leaders need to change. So what are some of the things that you're seeing as key categories
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characteristics of leaders of the future as you're meeting with leaders as you're meeting with people what are some of the things that you're looking for in this and at this time where you say man these are key skills or these are key attributes of leaders as we head into this new day
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Yeah, there's a great book by McQuindle called Gen Alpha. And in that book, he kind of states the different leadership styles of the generations. And so just to paraphrase it, he's like the baby boomers, they are controlling, their leadership styles are controlling. And it's not like baby boomers are woken up going, oh, I'm gonna control everybody today. They grew up in a time of war. And when you're at war,
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you got no time for like a feedback survey or ask how your feelings are. Right. So like control and command ultimately saves lives. And so, you know, their style was naturally controlling and they got a lot done. Very, very generous generation. A lot of churches that we see now, yeah,
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movements denominations happen because of that generous generation. Move to like Gen X's, which are like the parents of Gen Z, and they were coordinating, they started moving with the team. Gen Y, millennials, my generation, we were guiding, instead of like telling you what to do, we would do it with you like an older brother, older sister. And then Gen Z... Guide from the side rather than say from the stage, right? That's it. That's exactly it. Yeah.
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And then Gen Z, they're empowering. So they like to empower one another. They like to be empowered. And then Gen Alpha, they said they're going to be inspiring. So even though kind of growing up in a time where a lot of war and pain and suffering around them, they're growing up with a sense of hope and they will inspire you to do so.
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We'll see what happens with Gen Alpha. But I think all of that to say is I think that the best leaders today are the ones which are not clinging again to their leadership style, but they will be adaptive with their leadership style. And so where maybe the kind of dictatorial, controlling kind of leadership style might have worked before, might not work now if you are leading Gen Z. And so I think leading Gen Z takes a lot more time. Yeah.
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It involves sitting around the table with them a bit more, explaining the why a bit more, getting their buy-in a bit more, helping them to share where they see blind spots, our blind spots as leaders. So I think it takes security, takes vulnerability, takes listening. But if you're willing to do all of that, then you can really lead kind of Gen Z. I chat to some church leaders and ministry leaders, and they're like, I ain't got time for Gen Z. And that's fine. You know, everyone can do what they need to do. But...
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I don't have time for the future. Count me out. Exactly. So Gen Z are the biggest generation on the planet and Gen Alpha the second biggest. I think Gen Z are 25%, Gen Alpha 24%, something like that. And now brands and companies and everybody else listen to Gen Z because if they don't, they're not going to have a future. And so for some church leaders, I try and gently encourage them. I'm saying I understand it might be –
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a bit painful for you to work with Gen Z because it's not the style of leadership you're used to, but I encourage you purely because biblically we're meant to work with the generations. Secondly, because Jesus would always, you know, create space for the youngest. Thirdly, because if you want a future for your church, your ministry, you're going to have to at some point. And I think it's a beautiful thing when we do adapt our leadership style to work with a younger generation.
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I love that, Dan. And I think it's so powerful because it's the, you know, you didn't explicitly say this, but it's woven in there, is that one generation has the ability to reach the next, but it's very hard to skip a generation, right? So it's harder for a millennial to reach Gen Alpha than what it's going to be for a Gen Z to reach Gen Alpha, right? Because there's less bridging that needs to happen from one generation to the next.
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So I think that's really good because I think it's this concept of incremental obedience, right? Or incremental perspective is you don't have to see the whole thing to change the whole thing. You just need to see the next step and take it. But you touch on a skill there, which I want to double click on a little bit. And that's listening to younger leaders, right? So essentially what I'm hearing you say, and tell me if I'm mishearing you, is, okay, let's say I'm a leader. I'm looking at this. I'm saying, well, reaching Gen Alpha, reaching Gen Z, it's a step too far.
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I can't get there as a leader. What I'm hearing you say is it's okay, but engage a leader that can get there, right, in conversation and engage them in that conversation to get there, right? There's this whole silent revival happening in spaces. I still think it's more islands of revival and an ocean of depravity, but I'm excited about the islands, but it's not yet what I'd call a revival. It's just islands of renewal happening, and I'm super stoked about it.
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But we need to keep praying for revival because revival changes society. It's not just a young person showing up with a Bible asking, you know, who's Jesus. It's a little more than that. It's the start and I love it and I'm excited about it, but we need to blow on those embers is all I'm saying. But as we're blowing on those embers, how do you call those young people into leadership? And there's risk involved again, right? We've been talking about risk a lot, which kind of leans to trust, but...
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What are some of the key things in engaging those leaders? What do we need to watch out for? What do we need to do? I'm a leader. I'm saying, yes, I want to engage the next generation. You're saying I need to invite leaders in. What do I need to know?
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What questions do I need to ask? Yeah. First of all, I'd say it's not so much about the questions you need to ask. First of all, it's like, you know, are you ready to be in a position of humility? Because it takes humble leaders to be able to do this, to be able to say, I might not know everything, but you might. And remember, Gen Z are one of the most knowledgeable generations on the planet because they've got so much access to stuff. And this is the first time we've seen generations, younger generations, teaching up.
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So like you see Gen Z teaching their parents how to use their smartphone, how to download this app, how to do this. We've never, we've never really seen that before. It's always been education down, but now it's, it's going up. And I think Gen Z have got a lot to add and a lot to bring up, but it takes
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humility both ways. It takes the humility of the elders to listen and then it takes the humility of the youngers to be able to say it in a way which isn't like pointing the finger you're wrong, you need to change, but like appreciating that actually a lot of these guys have given their whole life
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you know, to see the kingdom come and his will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So let's respectfully, you know, thank them for all they've done. But I think when you get that collaboration between the generations happening, it's one of the most beautiful things. It's beautiful because you don't see it in the world. In the world, there's so much segregation and separation between generations, so much like,
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pointing the finger, being judgmental. But in the church, if we could model to the world what that looks like, that intergenerational collaboration, I think this would be one of the most exciting things of the next five to 10 years, because that just really hasn't happened before. And then I think the questions that kind of come up between the different generations is really like, you know, number one, what are you seeing? And what am I not seeing?
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And so it takes a very secure leader to say, like, what am I not seeing? What are my blind spots? Help me out. And the thing is, like, when I think about people who tell me the honest truth, they're probably like my family members or my closest friends. They're like, Dan, you've got like a massive piece of lettuce in your tooth. You need to get that out, you know. But, you know, we can be surrounded by people who… I think you're eating lettuce. It could have been brisket. So well done. Well done for having some lettuce. Yeah, yeah. Thanks.
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But you know what? Often, if you're surrounded by people who would not tell you that you've got letters in your teeth, then ultimately you are in this own little echo chamber. You know, the emperor's clothes, the emperor was naked. He didn't know because everyone told me he had clothes on. And it was only in the story, if you know the story, it was only a young person that said, why is the emperor naked? And then everyone starts laughing.
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Um, but if you're surrounded by people who will tell you, you got letters in your teeth, tell you, you got no clothes on, then you will be walking in a really safe relationship. And that's the healthiest place to do ministry. So I guess my question would be like, who have you got in your world of different generations who you can ask those deep questions to, and who can ask you those deep questions to, because that that's needed trust and relationship.
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I love that, Dan. It's so powerful, this concept of, you know, because even if we give a list of questions and the wrong posture is in place, we'll never get anywhere. But if we have the right posture, then we'll figure out the questions as we go.
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So that posture of humility, that posture of engagement really is the key in this journey. We've got to wrap up. We're running out of time here, Dan. But I want to ask you a question as you kind of survey the landscape. What gives you hope and what gives you pause? What excites you and you go, man, this makes me really hopeful for what lies ahead. And this gives me a little bit of pause. This gives me a bit of concern. I'm not sure how we're going to deal with that.
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Yeah, great question. I think the thing that makes me hopeful is that because this generation has been labeled the anxious generation, I thought that that would mean that there'd be no evangelism, that their fear, worry, anxiety stops them from sharing the gospel. Yeah, but what I'm seeing, filled with the Holy Spirit, they're actually more bold, more confident, more courageous than I've seen previous generations, like online and offline. And so I'm really hopeful that actually, yes, the world might call them the anxious generation, but I think God says they're the unashamed of the gospel generation. Love it.
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And they are absolutely going for it, inviting and sharing. The thing that I'd press pause on would be, you know, we've just spoke about, you know, dialogue between the different generations. The digital revolution is causing a lot of our dialogue to be WhatsApp, DMs, emails and text.
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The problem with that is that is just words. And Albert Meribin, Sir Albert Meribin, is a psychologist and did some research on this. And he said, when it comes to communication, 45% of it is body language, 50% of it is tone of voice, and 5% of it is text. And if you take away body language and tone of voice, you're just left with text. And if you ever send a text to someone and they've taken it the wrong way, you know, what you meant to say. That's never happened to me, Dan. I have no idea what you're talking about.
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I don't know. I mean, emojis help us. At least you can put a thumbs up at the end or, you know, something. But, but I would say the thing that gives me pause is, um, we like things getting done quick. And because of that, we text, email, DM, we're like, let's just get it done. But I think if we slow down and make as much of a, much of our communication between generations, face to face, over dinner, FaceTime, Zoom, whatever. So you can get the body language and the tone of voice. There'll be so much more health. It might mean a bit slower, but, um,
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But if we're thinking, let's be going forward for the next five, ten years together, rather than the next ten weeks together, then slower might actually be healthier. I love it. I love it. Dan, as always, chatting with you is a great privilege. And I'm always stirred and encouraged by what God is doing through you and in you. Likewise. And continuing to pray for you and cheer you on. Thank you for being part of the conversation. And looking forward to see where God might take all of this. Thanks, Yuri. Appreciate you.